Interview with Ms. Bernice Doe Baxter

• August 27, 1999
• Friday
• Jackie Burnside prepared to interview Ms. Bernice Doe Baxter, assisted by Ms. Ruth Kennedy for the Historic Black Berea Project. (????)
• Jackie; Now where is that house?
• Bernice; Down on Center Street. Do you know where Center Street is? On the corner of Center and Forest Street. It use to be a white house, it’s on the corner right there as you are coming from Main Street. Come down Center Street and it is right on the right on the corner of Forest and Center. It use to have a lot of trees, but they have cut those.
• Jackie; And it has yellow siding on it now?
• Bernice; Yes, and it did have a fence around it . I noticed last time I was up there, it had a chain link fence around it, but they have taken that down. It looks more natural with that fence down, cause Mama just had the trees, you know (????) we where small.
• Jackie; How many were in your family?
• Bernice; There were eight of us.
• Jackie; Eight, all right.
• Bernice; All of us born and raised right there in that house.
• Jackie; Did your mom have a midwife?
• Bernice; No. Now wait now. I don’t know. Because women then didn’t go to hospitals unless they just couldn’t birth the child, just couldn’t. But they had midwives, but now I don’t remember whether my mother had a midwife or not. I just don’t know. I have heard her say about that. But all eight of us were born and raised right there in that house.
• Jackie; How about the (?) starting with the names of your parents and then names of (?)
• Bernice; Okay, well my father was Robert Barton Doe, my mother was Ella Laforte Doe, she was an Estill, I guess you don’t need to put that in there, she was an Estill before she married my father. She was reared here in Richmond, but she married and my father was twenty years older than my mother.
• Jackie; Wow!
• Bernice; And now let’s see, now you want the children. Well the oldest was Anna Mae Doe, she and Nanny was good buddies.
• Jackie; Which Nanny?
• Ruth; My mother. (Nannie Rice)
• Bernice; Nanny (?). And then Lawrence.
• Jackie; Could he have a nickname?
• Bernice; No. No.
• Jackie; You all really called him Lawrence.
• Bernice; Yeah, but now my father, they use to call my father Doe. They would either call him Doe or R.B. A lot of people would call him R.B. and then some would just call him Doe. He would answer to either one. And let’s see, you got Anna Mae and Lawrence Doe. And then Robert B.Doe.
• Jackie; So he was the junior.
• Bernice; Yes, and there’s Geraldine Rainy (Rainie) Doe. And Evelyn Dorothy Doe. And Lovely Bernice Doe, I hardly ever go by my first name, cause everybody says well she just added that to it. I don’t know why Mama wanted to put that Lovely there.
• Jackie; That was nice.
• Bernice; And John Henry Doe. That’s Jack. You remember Jack, don’t you Ruth?
• Ruth; I remember (??). I remember Lawrence, and I remember Robert cause they use to work at the (?) House with my dad.
• Bernice; Can you remember that far Ruth? I didn’t think you were old enough to remember that.
• Ruth; I'm seventy-four.
• Bernice; Oh, no you’re not.
• Ruth; Yes I am.
• Bernice; Ruth you are kidding me.
• Ruth; No I’m not.
• Bernice; Well I wouldn’t have thought that. I thought you were younger than my brother Harold.
• Jackie; So Harold is the last one.
• Bernice; Harold Edward Doe, that is the last one.
• Jackie; That is a nice variety of names.
  • [Note: Mrs. Doe showed a typed list of her brothers and sisters names and birth and death dates.]
• Parents: Robert Barton Doe ("RB") – twenty years older than his wife, Ella.
  • (b. Oct 25, 1859 – d. Sept 6, 1934) {buried in Berea Cemetary}
• Ella LaForce Estill Doe (b. March 7, 1879 – d. Dec 12, 1942)
• Children:
  • Anna Mae Doe – oldest: b. March 2, 1898 – d.
  • James Lawrence Doe b. July 25, 1900 – d.
  • Robert B. Doe, Jr. "Bobby" b. 1901- d.
  • Geraldine Rainey (or Rainie) Doe b. 1908 – d.
  • Evelyn Dorothy Doe b. Nov 6, 1910 – d. June 6, 1968
  • Lovely Bernice Doe Baxter b. Oct 3, 1913
  • John Henry Doe (Jack") b. May 13, 1916 – d. Aug 25, 1965
  • Harold Edward Doe b. Oct 22, 1918 – Sept 18, 1983
• Bernice; Well, now let’s see now what else.
• Jackie; Well, you were telling me your dad was from South Carolina.
• Bernice; Yes, Barnwell, South Carolina.
• Jackie; Did you all ever go visit there?
• Bernice; No, never.
• Bernice; And, I don’t know whether you want all this.
• Jackie; Yes, oh yes.
• Bernice; Well, he came to Berea he was just a young man. And when he came to Berea to go to school, back there then Blacks could go to school (??). [Note: Robert Doe enrolled in Berea 1889-1895; I Academy]
• Jackie; But he started in the elementary?
• Bernice; No, what did he take? He didn’t finish because they segregated the school (???) [1904].
• But anyway he went to school there and to pay his way through he barbered. He had the first Barber Shop Berea ever had and it was at the corner, let’s see if I can tell you cause I don’t remember it, this is just what I have heard. It was at the corner, you know where Main Street and Estill [street] and then when you are going down to Middletown all them streets running right in there.
• Ruth; There’s a stoplight there now, isn’t there?
• Bernice; In Berea.
• Ruth; Wasn’t it Short Street?
• Bernice; No.
• Jackie; Chestnut Street and Estill, Walnut Pike.
• Bernice; Yes, Walnut Pike those three. Well now, right in that corner, you know right in that corner there?
• Ruth; Right where the stop light is.
• Bernice; Right where the stop light is.
• Ruth; On the corner of then of
• Jackie; Maybe where the Nursing Building is?
• Ruth; No, No, right on the corner where you turn to go to Middletown or go to Richmond or go to (U.S. Hwy) 25.
• Bernice; Yes, you can go to 25 or to Main Street there.
• Ruth; It would be the extra lot before you get to the nursing center.
• Jackie; Okay, it would be that lot.
• Bernice; Yes, well now it use to be a wooden a building there and my father opened up a barber shop there so he could make money to go to school. And he didn’t have a barber chair, now they have told me this, this is before I was born, they didn’t have a barber chair so he just used stools and a chair. Well that building burned. And when it burned he opened up a shop in the Boone Tavern, downstairs. Now I remember when it was Boone Tavern, I barely can remember that. And he stayed there for I don’t know how many years, several years, then he moved to Short Street. Can you remember Short Street?
• Bernice; Then he went to Short Street. It was before Rivers, it was Toma,Toma…what was his last name. I can’t think of the last name, I have forgotten, I was just young. But when he first went there it was Toma’s (?sp) Shoe Shop. Then Toma sold to Rivers and Rivers stayed there, oh I don’t remember.
• Jackie; Oh, just a few years ago.
• Ruth; A few years back.
• Bernice; They’re all dead now, Paul Rivers and all of them (??). Anyway, then my father stayed there on Short Street and barbered until, he used to work on, he use to barber, take care of old man Hutchinson.
• Jackie; William Hutchinson?
• Bernice; The older one.
• Jackie; Right, that was William.
• Bernice; Older man, the real old one. Had (???). My father did all his work.
• Ruth; Who did Mr. Frost? Did he doctor Mr. Frost?
• Bernice; Yes, I think he did. I won’t say for sure now Ruth.
• Ruth; I know Mr. Frost was before Hutchinson.
• Bernice; And then Hutchinson’s son, but now whether my father did his hair or not, I don’t know. (????) But anyway, my father when he got so he didn’t feel like working my brother Robert built a room on the house there on the corner of Center Street and Forest and moved my fathers shop there. Do you remember that Ruth? Well probably he didn’t barber there very long before he got the the place where he just couldn’t barber at all. (???????) Mama made a bedroom out of it, I think.
• Jackie; How old did your parents live to be.
• Bernice; My father when he passed was seventy ? if he had lived he passed in September. If he had lived another month in October he would have been seventy-five. And my mother was just sixty-three, sixty-two.
• Jackie; Do you know what year?
• Bernice; yes, my father was in October 25, I’ve got that in here what year. Seems like it was 18 (??) And my mother, I got it in here because my brother Lawrence and sister Mae told me Bernice always keep these so I put somewhere, their births and deaths and all. My mother was March 2, 1879.
• Jackie; And she was born here in Richmond.
• Bernice; Yes, she was born here, well it wasn’t right here in Richmond. It was right out here just this side of Kingston. You know where the Ordinance is?
• Jackie; Right
• Bernice; it was right there where the Ordinance, where she was born. They left from out there and came to Richmond she was just a little young girl. And my father, of course my father when he batched there he built that house himself and built it on the corner of Center Street. While he was barbering up there he built that house and he would come to Richmond he liked a little nip (??) and he would come to Richmond and he met my mother and married her and carried her to Berea and that’s where (??).
• Ruth; You were talking about 1850, is that when your mother was born?
• Bernice; my mother was born in 1879.
• Ruth; 1879, and daddy was born 1850?
• Bernice; Seems like. I think. Wait just a minute.
• //
• Bernice; let me see if I might have it here I don’t know. Yes, there it is. You want to look at it?
• Jackie; Oh, it has the names and birth (??)
• Bernice; yes I think my brothers Lawrence did that. Sent it to Mae and Mae sent it to me.
• Jackie; So you had two of them keep this put away. There’s Robert Barton Doe, October 25, 1859 and died September 6, 1934.
• // A lot of conversation between all three people, hard to hear everything.
• Bernice; Yes, that’s right.
• Jackie; Ella Laforte Estill , so Estill was
• Bernice; Maiden name
• Jackie; Maiden name, she was born March 7^th, 1879 and died December 12^th, 1942.
• // Conversation between Bernice and Ruth hard to catch what each is saying.
• Bernice; You know when Mama passed away she was 62 or 63 and I just thought she was an old woman.
• Ruth; You know people use to be old at that time.
• Bernice; I thought Mama and Papa were real old, but now they were just at their middle age.
• Jackie; So your sister Anna is still living?
• Bernice; No, all are gone but me.
• Jackie; Could you tell us about your childhood growing up in Berea? What kind of activities did you children do?
• Ruth; If you got bored you cleaned up the house or got in wood. They give a job to do!
• Bernice; Now isn’t that the truth. That is the truth. Well we all just ¾ Mama had that large yard there and we just all played in the yard and that is about the only activity we done till school and we would go to school. First went to school up there at Berea .
• Jackie; Where was that school located?
• Bernice; It’s up there, well it’s behind the old Purkey store.
• Ruth; Near Fee Street.
• Bernice; Fee Street. Fee Street.
• Jackie; What was the name of it?
• Bernice; I don’t know. It just one great big old room and it had a partition in it. And all of us black students children went there, we didn’t go to the other school. We went there until they built that school down in Middletown and then we transferred down there.
• Jackie; Did you all have to walk to the Middletown School?
• Bernice; Well we walked sometimes, but my mother had a car sometimes she would let us take the car but that was very seldom. We walked more than we rode.
• Jackie; So your mom drove, she could drive?
• Bernice; No she couldn’t drive, she would let us drive. Listen to the Gentry’s on the radio.
• Ruth; (??) was my aunt.
• Bernice; Is she? Was she?
• Ruth; Sure. Aunt Tilley was my Grandpa Howard’s sister. Aunt Tilley, Uncle John, Aunt Melissie. Oh yea, see they were my mom’s aunt.
• Bernice; Well I didn’t know that Ruth.
• Ruth; You just forgot
• Bernice; Probably so, its been so long.
• Ruth; Aunt Tilley, Uncle John and Grandpa Howard¾ Howard Ballard his mothers (??).
• Aunt Matilda was Grandpa Howard’s sister.
• Bernice;Yes. Sister, right, right. Miss Melissa.(????)
• Bernice; I don’t know. Looks like they would have a record of that school up there in Berea.
• Ruth; They have.
• Bernice; No one knows¾ Well where is it? You never hear nothing about it.
• Jackie; Some of it might be with the county records. (???)
• … Ruth and Bernice talking at the same time, can’t understand.
• Bernice; I wish somebody¾
• Ruth; Before the consolidated school¾ before the brick school was built. See you had the little white school¾ you had that school where the Herd’s live¾ where ¾ on Glades Road that’s where you all transferred to.
• Bernice; No I didn’t go to that school¾ I didn’t go to¾ when we left up there in Berea we went direct to the brick school.
• Ruth; To the brick school
• Bernice; and the ones that went there (?????) And then this little school down to Farristown, they had a little school down Farristown and those children¾ when they sold it then those children all came to Middletown to the brick school.
• Ruth; Okay, I didn’t know that’s the way it was.
• … conversation between Ruth and Bernice, can’t understand everything they are saying
• Ruth; I know cause Bobtown had a little school.
• Bernice; Bobtown had a school
• Ruth; Farristown had a little school, Peytontown had a little school.
• Bernice; yes all of them until¾
• Ruth; they consolidated it
• Bernice; Right
• Jackie; What was your favorite part about those schools?
• Bernice; (laughing) I don’t know (?????)
• Jackie; Well, what are some of your favorite memories of your mom?
• Bernice; Oh I have so many, so many. She was just a wonderful mom and wonderful daddy. Of course all children think that their parents are wonderful. They were very strict, sometimes we felt like they were too strict. They would just make us stay right there in the yard until we went to school. Now on Sundays my parents would put in the car and take us maybe down to Boonesboro or something fix lunch. She would take us to Boonesboro and let us look at those ferries, didn’t have a bridge down there then. Had nothing but that old ferry (?????). We would sit on the ground and watch the ferry take cars and buggy and wagons across the river down there at Boonesboro. And sometimes they would take us to different places that was just on the weekends on Sunday. That is about all the recreation we had.
• Jackie; Did she teach you any special things like sewing or ¾
• Bernice; Yes, well now not me so much as my older sisters, I was the youngest girl. So¾
• Ruth; Spoiled you.
• Bernice; I don’t know whether it was or not but anyhow the older ones got more attention than I got because they were older and I was just a little kid running around so Mama didn’t take up too much time with me. But my older sister Mae, Mae did¾ Mae just thought there wasn’t no body like me cause I was just a little thing.
• Ruth; Mae ended up a beautician up in Cinncinatti.
• Bernice; Yes
• Ruth; Mae was a beautician in Cinn.
• Bernice; Yes she sure was.
• Ruth; On Gilbert Avenue
• Bernice; Yes, well now she helped my daddy there she just worked on women there on Short Street for about a year before she went to Cinn.
• Ruth; I didn’t know that.
• Bernice; Yes, she helped him there. He loaned her one of his chairs.
• Jackie; What sorts of things did Ella do?
• Bernice; My mother?
• Jackie; Yes. Oh no I’m sorry.
• Bernice; Well my mother had a used clothing store behind my daddy’s barbershop. Do you remember that Ruth?
• Jackie; In the building that he had¾
• Bernice; Yes, in the same building there on Short Street . In the back she had a used clothing store and then she done cleaning too and altering. She would alter some of those stores like the men’s pants were maybe too long or too large in¾ yes alterations she would alter them.
• Ruth; That’s something I didn’t know. I’m learning something too.
• Bernice; I did have one of her old (?) irons she use to use when she would alter them pants and then sometimes she would press them and I had that big old iron, I don’t know what in the world happened to it. Didn’t have electric irons then.
• Ruth; I saw one and since you said it I can see it now back in my mind. About that long with a handle.
• 
  (?????) Bernice and Ruth talking at the same time.
• Bernice; No electric irons back then.
• Ruth; No, we didn’t have electricity.
• Bernice; No.
• Jackie; How did you all keep food cold?
• Bernice; We were talking about that the other day. I don’t know how in the world¾ and you hardly ever lost any food. I mean it didn’t spoil. We would just get a big block of ice, we would have a big block of ice and the ice truck would go by and we would just buy maybe 40-25 or 50 lbs. and put it in your ice box and if you didn’t have a icebox you just put it in a tub and cover it over. And then you keep your butter and you didn’t have¾ it didn’t spoil.
• Ruth; Now what mother use to do was the next morning she would put that food on the stove and got it hot again and that would kill that bacteria that had been left over all night and then you were going to eat it for lunch that day.
• Bernice; And my mother use to in the summer time¾ blackberrries, get blackberrries and make jam and in the wintertime sometimes those jars would have mold on top and you would just rack that mold back and take that mold off and us kids would eat that jam and it tasted just¾ now if you see a little mold on something out it goes, you throw it away you don’t keep it. And we just as healthy as birds. (laughing)
• Jackie; What did James Lawrence do for a living?
• Bernice; Lets see, he done a little electric work but I can just barely remember before he left home. Just a¾ I guess he was just a young man, I guess he was a teenager, I don’t know. But I remember him wiring, he and¾ what was the name of the lady, Ruth, that lived right there by the old school there Middletown, the old brick school in Middletown?
• Ruth; Eniece Walker.
• Bernice; Eniece Walker. He and Eniece Walker wired, if I remember. And right after that I think he left and went to (??) New York and he never did come back, well he come back to visit but he never lived back here.
• Jackie; Is there a Calvin Doe?
• Bernice; Yes, well now I don’t remember, he died before I was born.
• Jackie; Okay.
• Bernice;(????)
• Jackie; Geraldine.
• Bernice; Geraldine, my sister Geraldine. She was (??) married and had four children.
• Jackie; Did she stay around?
• Bernice; Yes, she lived here and raised the children.
• Ruth; Who’s in Louisville, her grandkids?
• Bernice; Yes, her children is in Louisville. And lets see now, two of her children is in Louiville. I said she had four children, she had three, two boys and a girl. (??) their in Louisville, Bill is in Cleveland.
• Ruth; Oh really!
• Bernice; That’s the oldest one.
• Jackie; How about Evelyn Dorothy?
• Bernice; Evelyn Dorothy.
• Jackie; Yes.
• Bernice; She’s (????) as far as I know of.
• Jackie; Did she stay around …
• Bernice; She did when she was in Berea now, before she left Berea she use to just go help different ones do a little housework before she went to Louisville. (??) She had one child.
• Jackie; (??)
• Bernice; (laughing) Just the one.
• Jackie; One
• Bernice; I just had the one, John Henry. Worked… he didn’t do anything while he was in Berea…well now he use to when he was a child he use to haul cream down to Berea College Creamry for old Ms. (?). She had kind of a dairy like at the end of Center Street just before you get to the creek.
• Jackie; Yes, was it a Harrison or who?
• Bernice; Harrison, Harrison. Old Ms Harrison and he had a little cart and he would have about 4-5…you remember them old big milk cans of milk and cream and he would take it every morning roll that down before he went to school to the creamry down there.
• Jackie; Where did he move to after he got (?)
• Bernice; Cincinnatti. He was a porter there at the Union Station. (?)
• Jackie; Harold Edward.
• Bernice; Harold Edward. Harold didn’t do anything until he left and after (??) factory there I done forgot now what factory it was. Worked there for years.
• Jackie; Did he marry?
• Bernice; Yes, he married. (????) Jane Doe. Her name was Jane Doe.
• Jackie; I bet she gets lots of…
• Bernice; Fictious names, John Doe and Jane Doe. (laughing)
• Jackie; Do you know where the Doe name come from? Did your Dad ever talk about…
• Bernice; Yes, he told us. He said that his mother, his grandmother I think (?) great-grandmother was an Indian squall and said that’s where we got our Doe (?) cause deer, I don’t know.
• Jackie; A female deer is a doe.
• Bernice; Yes, a doe and something about being wild or something. I don’t know. He use to explain to us but I have forgotten. But that’s where our name came from, the Doe. (????)
• Jackie; Did he talk about his parents?
• Bernice; Not too much. Didn’t tell us (??) Well, he might have but I have forgotten. But his mother died in Berea.
• Jackie; Oh she did.
• Bernice; Yes, after she got sick he went and got her and brought her there. She died there on Center Street and my mother was pregnant with me when she died.
• Jackie; Do you remember her name?
• Bernice; Ber(?) Doe, I can’t spell it honey, but I remember him saying his mother’s name was Ber(?) Doe.
• Jackie; And it was her mom who was the Indian Squall.
• Bernice; It was either her mom or her grandmother now, I have forgotten just what my father said. She married (??) anyway she had my grandmother by a black man (?????)
• Jackie; How did you decide to come to Richmond?
• Bernice; Well, after my father died he…my mother got dissatisfied in Berea so she…her sister, her mother my grandmother were living down there on Fee Street. (??) Anna Mae Collins (??)
• Ruth; I know Marie
• Bernice; Well anyway, they persuaded my mother to sell in Berea and come to Richmond so my mother did she came (??) (??) but I lived in Farristown when I first married.
• Jackie; and your husbands name was…
• Bernice; L.T. Baxter.
• Jackie; Where did you all live in Farristown?
• Bernice; Do you know where Margie White lives?
• Jackie; Near the railroad crossing?
• Bernice; Well my husbands father built that house for my husband and I and we lived there and…
• Ruth; (?) husbands father was(??)
• Bernice; Yes, he built Mrytle Ballard’s house.
• Jackie; Oh, and his name was Arthur Baxter.
• Bernice; He built Mrytle, where Mitchell Ballard lives there now and he built two or three houses down (???) and he built several barns and C.C. Coy and them you know those farmers back there (????)
• Ruth; And tell her they owned a store there.
• Bernice; Yes, they had a store there
• (Bernice and Ruth talking at the same time.)
• Bernice; but that store is about gone now, just about down.
• Jackie; Did you all help in the store?
• Bernice; Not too much, I would go there and stay around in there with Ms. Baxter but I didn’t do too much. Sometimes I would dust some of things off you know. I didn’t wait on no body, she liked to do that so she done most all of that (laughing).
• Jackie; How did you and Mr. Baxter meet?
• Bernice; Oh! We were just kids. When the consolidated…when Farristown school came to Middletown, Berea schools came to Middletown we were just kids and started liking each other and Professor (?) over there in the big room and (?) over in the big room, we called it the big room (??) he taught classes over there in that big old (?) two rooms on this side (??). Ms. Tilley taught in one room and the other one, I have forgot now. Anyway…
• Ruth; Did Ms. Mattie Clark teach there or not.
• Bernice; She might have, she might have.
• Ruth; Or Ms. (?) or Ms. Somebody from Lancaster, Ms. (?) , remember her? Ms. Kittyberry.
• Bernice; Well that must have been after I left, Ruth. Seems like Ms. Tilley taught classes in both those rooms when I was there. And those others came after I left.
• Ruth; I was just going on what I heard.
• Bernice; Could have after I left.
• Ruth; I use to hear Mr. P(sp) talk about Ms. Kittyberry(sp)
• Bernice; Well I have heard that name but I can’t place it right now. But anyway, he would (?) that was my husbands nickname
• Jackie; LAKE
• Bernice; (laughing) He would write little notes and throw them over the windows, we had little windows over there. Now that is where we started and then he would bring me candy from his mother and daddy’s store, Baby Ruth candies and I guess that sweetened me and so that’s the way it started.
• Jackie; How old were you when you got married?
• Bernice; I was twenty I believe I was or twenty-one. That’s been a long time. Well I went with other boys and I guess he went with other girls but we (?) up with each other. I think that’s best though for children, I don’t think you ought to…I think they should go with more than one boy or go with more than one girl and I just think it works out better.
• Jackie; (??)
• Bernice; I think so too. Some just meet and jump right in there and marry you know and I don’t think that is good. I think you should not play the field…
• Ruth; Why not?
• Bernice; But meet others, go with others. Marriage, I think, is a life time job, lifetime job and you should meet other people before decide on just one person, I think. Now of course I could be wrong.
• Jackie; Now tell us a little more about what you did.
• Bernice; Well…
• Jackie; You all lived in Farristown for awhile then you moved from there to…
• Bernice; And we moved from there to Richmond. And been living here now on Francis Street…let me see, about sixty years. Well first he was a porter down here at the bus station when we first came and then he bought out (?) Harris Cab and went into the cab business and kept that about ten years. Then he sold that and went into the sanitation business and we were in the sanitation business for about ten years. After he sold that out he didn’t feel too (???)
• Jackie; How did you help out in all these businesses?
• Bernice; Everything. When we were in the cab business I would help drive the cabs and I sometimes would answer the phone, we had the two way phone system and I would answer the phones and try to keep his books, do secretarial work trying to keep his books. I did that when we were in the cab business and then we were in the sanitation business and try to keep house too, so I had my hands full!
• Jackie; Yes you did. Where did your son Ralph go?
• Bernice; He went to Louisville after he finished Richmond High and then he married (??) daughter. They have four children and he worked at (??) there in Louisville. Louisville (??) worked there when he first went to Louisville then he left there and went to GE plant and he stayed there until he retired a few years ago.
• Jackie; His wife’s name is…
• Bernice; Francis Laverne Baxter.
• Jackie; So he must have (??) Berea.
• Bernice; He did. (???)
• Jackie; Was there anything special you enjoyed about living in Berea?
• Bernice; Oh I loved Berea. I love Berea and it was just so quiet then and peaceful. And at that time we had a large front porch and at night when we children would sit out there on the front porch and look at the stars and my daddy would try to explain the different stars to us and watch for falling stars and maybe see a rabbit come thru run a rabbit at night. (laughing) We just enjoyed, just so much different now. The children just don’t have the clean fun now like we use to. And we had swings on the porch and father would tell us different …sometimes he would tell ghost tales and we would be afraid to go to bed and he would have to go upstairs and go to bed with us.
• Ruth; What about church?
• Bernice; Well, my father went to Union Church, he was a member of Union Church. But now us children we didn’t go to…now sometimes we would go down to Middletown, but we didn’t go to church until after we got grown and got away from home and (???) . But my father would go and my mother was belonged up there at the Christian Church…you know where the Christian Church is?
• Ruth; Sure, that’s where she goes.
• Bernice; Oh is it? Well my mother was a member there years ago.
• Ruth; That’s what I wanted to know.
• Bernice; Yes, she was a member there at the Christian Church.
• Ruth; Her and Mr. Bill Titus (??????) When Bill Titus died he was the last black member that they had.
• Bernice; Don’t have any now at all, oh you said…
• Jackie; Yes we just joined.
• Bernice; Oh good!
• Ruth; You joined there, oh I did not know that.
• Jackie; In July.
• Ruth; Did Virgil too?
• Jackie; Yes he did. And it is interesting to where Virgil grew up in Lincoln County, (?) Gap outside of Stanford there had been a Black Christian Church and he had belonged there when he was growing up.
• Bernice; Now that’s the first time I have heard of a Black Christian Church.
• Ruth; Well, Lexington has several.
• Bernice; Oh have they!
• Ruth; Oh yes.
• Bernice; Have they always had it Ruth?
• Ruth; As far as I know, I don’t know, but Lexington’s got several Christian Churches.
• Bernice; Well good.
• Ruth; But I didn’t know of one like down in Boyle County.
• Jackie; And Danville has one.
• Bernice; Really?
• Ruth; I didn’t know that.
• Jackie; Yes, where I grew up we were selling missionary baskets.
• Bernice; Well, that’s what I am, that’s what Ruth is and I’m a missionary.
• Ruth; You didn’t belong in Middletown, you belonged down here.
• Bernice; I belonged… just belonged to this one church.
• Ruth; All your life.
• Bernice; Not until after I got grown.
• Jackie; Is that a little unusual that your parents didn’t take you all to church or to…
• Bernice; Well, I just don’t know, we just didn’t go.
• Ruth; You didn’t go to Sunday School or anything like that?
• Bernice; No, my daddy would dress on Sunday morning and go up there to the Union Church. Someone said he was a deacon there, whether my daddy was a deacon or not…
• you know (??) he said he was up there looking thru the…what is that you look thru?
• Jackie; Church records
• Ruth; Archives
• Bernice; Yes, I think that is what… and he saw where my father was a deacon (????)
• so we just grew up like little weeds right there on Center Street. We got grown and branched out.
• Jackie; I wonder if maybe that’s because of (??) by the time you were growing up would have been in effect (??)
• Bernice; Maybe so, I just don’t know.
• Jackie; With all those kids, they would have wanted you all to be in Sunday School seems like.
• Bernice; But now sometimes I would go down there at Middletown at a funeral or if they had something special or something like that (??) singing. Remember the Big Four (?), everybody loved to hear them.
• Jackie; Were they men or women?
• Bernice; Men, they were men.
• Ruth; Originally from Bobtown but moved to Dayton and they had a quartet. They were good too.
• Bernice; (??????) Do you want to see pictures of my mother? There’s my mother, there’s my father. I think Ralph looks just like my dad.
• Ruth; Well, he does. He does.
• Bernice; That’s Ralph and Frances there and there’s my granddaughter there. That’s Ralph’s granddaughter, my great-granddaughter.
• Jackie; How many children did Ralph have?
• Bernice; (?????????)
• (???) Conversation between all three hard to understand.
• Jackie; Where were you all sitting at?
• Bernice; That was at my sister’s in Louisville. And let’s see…this is Ralph’s (?????????????????????????????????????????????)
• (??????) Conversation moved away from the microphone, I think.
• Bernice; Ralph had a birthday so they came and got me. Had a surprise birthday.
• Ruth; That’s the reason you went to Louisville.
• Bernice; Yes, I didn’t tell you I was going to Louisville?
• Ruth; Right.
• Bernice; This is my baby grandbaby. That’s when they had (?????)
• Ruth; And looked just like that too, it was just like that.
• (Laughing)
• Bernice; You know what children? I liked them afroes (sp)
• Ruth; I could not stand an afroe.
• Bernice; I liked that afroe better…that’s my mother, that is her (????) that’s my son (?????)
• Ruth; That’s your mom?
• Bernice; That’s an ugly picture of momma, momma always said don’t show that picture to nobody.
• Jackie; (?????????)
• Bernice; Over here is my sister Mae and my brother Lawrence, oldest brother.
• Ruth; (???) always talked about Mae.
• Bernice; (???) Nannie too.
• Ruth; Mae belonged down Middletown cause Mae was baptized down Middletown with mother.
• Bernice; Was she? Well what about that. Well I say.
• Ruth; I heard mother talk about her and Mae being baptized.
• Bernice; We use to go over there in the bottoms at them things when they had them, we called it the bottom.
• Jackie; Now where was this?
• Bernice; (????)
• Jackie; That was down at the bottom of Boone Street.
• Bernice; Yes. And what was that old ladies name that had a tent…
• Ruth; Mother Brown.
• Bernice; Brown, Mother Brown. Can you remember that Ruth?
• Ruth; Oh yes!
• Bernice; Can you really?
• Ruth; yes!
• Bernice; I didn’t you were old enough to remember.
• Jackie; She had tent revivals.
• Bernice; Yes.
• Ruth; Yes, Mother Brown was holiness, she was a holiness minister and she originally come from Danville and then once a year would come to Berea and have a tent meeting for a whole big month, I think.
• Ruth; I never (?)
• Bernice; We enjoyed going to that and then sometimes my mother and father would have her up for dinner.
• Ruth; Oh really.
• Bernice; But I barely can remember.
• Ruth; See it went on for years, it went on for years. Cause Mother Brown was very old when she died.
• Bernice; And tell you something else Ruth, when she would come those churches, you know Middletown and church people would come because she was holiness you know it didn’t matter.
• Ruth; It mattered to some of them but most of them it didn’t. Cause (?) would play sometimes and mother would play sometimes, Mother Brown.
• Bernice; Yes, that’s the truth.
• Jackie; What other places did black people live when you were growing up on Center Street.
• Bernice; We were the only family…well now I can barely remember one(??) what was his name, that lived up… do you know where Ruth(?) use to live up there? It use to be blacks lived along in there (??) moved to Cincinnatti. I just barely can….
• Jackie; Was it like the Main Street, Chestnut or Prospect?
• Ruth; She means close to where…
• Bernice; No
• (???) Conversation between all three.
• Ruth; On Center Street.
• Jackie; There was Center Street, Jackson Street and you know another family of black people.
• Bernice; I just barely can remember…which road…
• Jackie; Was there a family named Elder or something like that?
• Bernice; (?) remember Elder, seems like a Rhodes. I have forgot now.
• Jackie; Oh, Rhodes.
• Bernice; I think so.
• Ruth; Now we had a Rhodes, but they were down in Middletown.
• Bernice; Preacher Rhodes.
• Ruth; Yes, that is the Rhodes.
• Bernice; No, this is a different set of Rhodes.
• Jackie; How about the (???) Is that a name that sounds familiar?
• Bernice; No, now it was an Anderson boy I went to school with…Was that up in Berea or Middletown. Seems like that was up in Berea cause I remember he kinda liked me and I kinda liked him. But his parents moved away and I don’t know whatever happened to him. But I remember his last name was Anderson. But what his father done there, I don’t remember because we were too small.
• Jackie; Well how about Reynolds?
• Bernice; Oh yes, Reynolds, Mr. George Reynolds. Down on Jefferson Street.
• Ruth; That is Juanita’s family, George Reynolds.
• Bernice; Yes, Mr. George Reynolds.
• Ruth; Berea College post…delivered mail, mail carrier.
• Bernice; He sure was. My dad thought so much of Mr. Reynolds.
• Jackie; Is there a family of Rhodes, William, Mary, Lizzie, Joseph?
• Bernice; Now where did they live?
• Jackie; It doesn’t say, it just says they were students back in 1880"s – 1890"s at Berea. And then here is Robe, Reverend William…
• Bernice; Rev. Robe, that is down on Glades Road.
• Jackie; Okay, was he black or…
• Bernice; Black
• Jackie; He lived…
• Bernice; It was Glades Road, wasn’t Ruth?
• Ruth; Right where the bank…before you get to the bank right on the corner there opposite where the new school is going to be. There is a blank place there before you get to the Berea National Bank.
• Bernice; Well now Ruth, are you talking about when he married Ms. (?)
• Ruth; Yes, that’s what I’m talking about.
• Bernice; Well now before he married Ms. (?)
• Ruth; Okay, I don’t know.
• Bernice; You don’t remember that do you? But now he didn’t live there with her. I was trying to think where he lived before he married Ms.(?). You can’t remember old man (?) either? Fine old man, Fine old man.
• Ruth; On what drawed my attention to that property and everything was that(?) where they had chickens and…
• Bernice; And Ms. (?) had goosebirds and we would go down there and momma would by goosebird from her and old man (?)… I never saw him with nothing but a black suit on and a white shirt and black tie and he was well educated…Yes, a fine old man.
• Jackie; And they were a black family/
• Bernice; Yes, they were black. And then after he died then she married Rev. Robes.
• Jackie; Do you remember her first name?
• Bernice; No, I don’t remember her first name.
• Bernice; Are you going to put this in a book or what did you say?
• Jackie; We are going to create a little map that people can walk around and look and see or drive around and look and see where the families use to live and then we also want to do a book with some pictures so maybe I try and come back later and maybe make a copy of your mom, your dad. I’ve got a little digital camera that I will try here in a few minutes, but may have to get a regular camera.
• Bernice; Oh, well all right. That is nice.
• Jackie; We’ve got a year to work on it.
• Bernice; Well that is good.
• Jackie; How about along the Chestnut Street area there, anybody you remember black living on that area.
• Bernice; Yes, Chestnut Street. Robert Ballard had that barber shop up there across from the picture show. Can you remember that Ruth?
• Ruth; The only time I know he had a barber shop was the one that was down going over the hill.
• Bernice; No.
• Ruth; He had one on Chestnut Street.?
• Bernice; On Chestnut Street, you know where the picture…where the movie theater was, is it still a theater there?
• Ruth; Theater Building is still there, but we don’t have a theater.
• Bernice; Don’t have a theater? Well it might not be directly in front of that, but it is over close to it.
• Ruth; Is it where the Baptist Church is? The white Baptist Church?
• Bernice; Yes. Yes, along in there somewhere.
• Ruth; Near the post office and all that.
• Bernice; It is to be just a little building, I guess it is torn down now. Robert Ballard had (??) but he worked on whites. He had a barber shop there. That is Matthew’s brother, you remember Matthew?
• Ruth; Yes, I know.
• Bernice; I don’t think he was in there very long, but I remember he was in there. Now let’s see if there are any other blacks.
• Jackie; Was there like a butcher shop or a mill…
• Ruth; You had on Chestnut Street also before you got to where she was talking about across there is where Mr. B and them had the dry cleaners.
• Bernice; Well now, was that on Depot Street or on…
• Ruth; No, No, No, the dry cleaning when I was a kid it was on Chestnut Street.
• Bernice; Where about on Chestnut Street, I have done forgot.
• Ruth; Here is the theater here and right down from there is where they had their dry cleaning.
• Bernice; Was it?
• Jackie; Was that Mr. (?) ?
• Bernice; Mr. (?) , Joe (?) and Harold Ballard. Was Harold in with them?
• Ruth; Harold, Joe and Mr. B had the dry cleaners. And then there was a mill on the corner of…pretty close to where Harold and them had the press shop on up and back over in kind of a gully like there was a mill. People would bring corn up there to get…
• Bernice; I remember an old man use to sell chickens.
• Ruth; yes, old man Hutchins
• (????) Ruth and Bernice talking at the same time.
• Ruth; Just before you get to the theater.
• *Started Second Tape *
• Bernice; Pattie Miller, Pattie Banks Miller.
• Jackie; We were back on those home remedies.
• Bernice; Oh, let’s see what else besides…my daddy use to take cigar ashes and clean his teeth, cigar ashes did you ever hear of that. And he if he had lived another month before he passed he would have been 75 and never had a cavity, never had a tooth pulled, his teeth…after he become ill you know he would be fevered and my mother would give him ice and he would chew that ice. His teeth was just as solid as they could be, everyone when he died, never had a toothache. So I don’t know whether the cigar ashes helped or what! (laughing) And I tell you something else, he use to take turpintine, a drop or two of turpintine about once every 6-8 months. He said that helped to clean your kidneys or something. Mama use to say, you came from the south and you just got all that old (?) in you and he would just laugh. But now some times those old remedies worked.
• Jackie; Right, (?) what made them work.
• Bernice; Let me see if I know any others.
• Jackie; What did they put on cuts when people cut themselves, to stop bleeding.
• Ruth and Bernice; Soot! Soot!
• Bernice; That’s right Ruth!
• Bernice; Yes, that’s the truth it would stop the bleeding. Cause I have seen people that you can see after it is healed over and you can see that little black streak where they put the soot.
• Jackie; Now what did the women do for birth control back then.
• Bernice; Nothing honey, that is the reason they had so many. My grandmother, my mother’s mother had fourteen! Had fourteen. She said one, my uncle Webb, said she was in the blackberry patch when he started and she almost didn’t hardly make it to the house. I think my grandfather come out there and cut the cord. But women back there then they would…you would just be half dead before you would go to the hospital. They birthed all the children in the homes you know. Maybe they would have a doctor or a midwife you know and sometimes the husband would do it or the older daughter or something. And if the doctor would come and they didn’t have any money…maybe they would give him a half a ham or a chicken or eggs or something like that. And the doctor would be satisfied.
• Jackie; Not now days.
• Bernice; No honey, why they break you up now and they don’t want to make any house calls anymore. No you got to go to the hospitals now. You call first if you got to go to the hospital.
• Jackie; Now which doctors did you all go to. Were they in Berea?
• Bernice; In Berea.
• Jackie; When you were growing up?
• Bernice; Doctor (?)
• Jackie; So they were white doctors
• Bernice; Yes, all white doctors. Dr.(?) , Dr. Barlett, now he is the one that brought Ralph in the world. Cause he told me…I went for an examination before Ralph was born and he said…the lady that was with me (???) don’t you eat too much cause I don’t want you to have a big baby. Smaller the baby is the better it would be for you, Ralph weighed 6 lbs. (?)ozs.
• Jackie; Well that is good that the white doctors saw the black patients.
• Bernice; yes, they usually come wouldn’t have any trouble.
• Ruth; (??) you wouldn’t had no doctor, we didn’t have any black doctors in Berea. We never had nothing black like that in Berea, Richmond had black doctors.
• Bernice; yes, Dr. (??), Dr. Dody…
• Ruth; (?) was the dentist.
• Bernice; Yes. (?????????)
• Ruth; That’s all I remember.
• Jackie; How about black lawyers. Were there any around?
• Bernice; No, we didn’t have any black lawyers. (???????) school teachers (??)
• Jackie; Would you say most of the black people were farmers or maybe they worked with the railroad?
• Bernice; In Richmond or Berea?
• Jackie; Well Berea, lets start Berea.
• Bernice; Well, let me see. Farmers, farmed the farms and just work around there (???)
• Ruth; Mostly for the college, the college supplied work.
• Bernice; Back then you if you took the college out of Berea, you had no (??).
• Ruth; Housework for the women, washing, ironing. (??) walked from Farristown to Berea to work to be maids and walk all the way back.
• Bernice; Work all day and then walk back.
• Ruth; then in the fall I’ve been told that people like Mr.(?) and that bunch would go to Indiana in the fall
• to cut corn in order to have money for their families. I’ve been told that, I don’t know.
• Jackie; What kind of work did they do for the college?
• Ruth; Farmed, Farm work.
• Jackie; What places did they work?
• Bernice; Farm work, then worked down there at the steam, steam…
• Ruth; The powerhouse.
• Bernice; Yes, the powerhouse. Amanda and thems father, oh what was his name?
• Jackie; Mr. Burnell?
• Ruth; No, no, no.
• Bernice; John Paulie Shearer, he worked at the powerhouse.
• Ruth; He there and Mr. Howard Willis worked there.
• Bernice; Yes.
• Jackie; Howard Willis?
• Bernice; yes, that is Bonnies…do you know Bonnie, Bonnies grandfather?
• Jackie; Oh okay.
• Bernice; Bonnie Mitchell’s (sp) grandfather.
• Ruth; Then Bill Herd worked there.
• Bernice; Yes, then we had a…worked on watches. (??)
• Ruth; (sp) Peevly. Peevly was the watch repair man.
• Bernice; He had a shop there in his house, didn’t he Ruth?
• Ruth; I didn’t know where it was.
• Bernice; It was behind the jail.
• Ruth; Behind the jail.
• Jackie; Now the jail was over on North Broadway.
• Bernice; Right, there was a little street running right by the jail back there.
• Ruth; That is where Margie’s house is now, built a house up there.
• Bernice; Yes. Yes. And then Dorothy use to live back there too.
• Jackie; Which Dorothy?
• Ruth; Bonnie’s mother.
• Bernice; Bonnie’s mother.
• Ruth; There was a little street called Grant Street.
• Bernice; Was it? I have forgotten now.
• Ruth; Grant Street was that street where you were talking about where you went up to the P(?) and the (?) I don’t know if that street ever had a name. Just turned up there by the (??)
• Bernice; Right.
• Jackie; So now, what was on Grant Street? Not the watch repair.
• Ruth; Oh, nothing but residence.
• Jackie; Okay, so that is where Dorothy and Bonnie lived.
• Ruth; But then this other little road didn’t have no name I don’t guess that’s where the Lemon’s (?sp) andold man Pevley (?sp)
• Bernice; Yes, right. Sure did.
• Jackie; And that was by the …
• Ruth; Turn up by the jail, off of North Broadway.
• Jackie; Old man Pevley, wonder where he came from?
• Bernice; Up in the mountains somewhere, didn’t he?
• Jackie; And he was black?
• Bernice; Yes, he was black but he looked white. (?????????)
  • (long pause)
• Jackie; Do you remember anything about the Lemon (?sp) Family?
• Bernice; It is the ones we just got thru talking about that had the watch repair shop.
• Ruth; That was Lemon’s granddaddy, I think.
  • (conversation between all three)
• Bernice; All lived up in there together. George Lemons, sister Lorene, Stella and that other boy what was his name? (????)
• Ruth; Two younger boys. One of them use to work up Rivers Shoe Store. Robert.
• Bernice; Oh he did work at Rivers
• Ruth; (??) Cincinnatti and then he was still working in a shoe shop.
• Bernice; Well I say. Well Ruth what is in the place where the Rivers Shoe Shop was? Is it still a shoe shop?
• Ruth; No.
• Jackie; Berea Credit Union now.
• Bernice; Oh is it? Oh, I have set on that step and played a many time, daddy use to shop there. And Iuse to when my daddy had his shop up at the Boone Tavern, you know you couldn’t go in the Boone Tavern then if you were black unless you were going to work. And I (??) you know those big windows in front they have (??????????????????) and I would come out and I would walk there and look (????????) and I would see them sitting in there eating and I’d just say I wish I could go in there and sit and eat that food. But I couldn’t go in there because I was black. Sad, Sad. Wonder what they are going to tell God when they get…those people. I guess… but they thought they were right, do you think they thought they were right?

• Jackie; Well, why don’t we call it a day and if you think of some more we’ll (????) I really appreciate your taking time. Oh, let me explain. I got one form for you if you wouldn’t mind that we make use of this information and that we are going to keep copies of this in the colleg library in the archives. But in order to do that we have to get your permission. This is the form.